Interview with Jaimie DeAngelo
1.You have degrees in art and in urban planning, a combination I find full of possibilities. What do you feel each discipline extends to the other in terms of what you want to do both as an artist and activist?
In order to answer this, I really have to credit a the people at the Museum of Reclaimed Urban Space, which is a neighborhood history museum and anarchist-style collective in the lower east side in Manhattan. And your readers should check them out. I met these folks in 2013, during a summer when I was in between jobs and lucky to have some free time. The people in this neighborhood pitched in to recover this building and several others in the 70s after the city and private entities essentially disinvested in the area. Some of the local historians and activities that do shows here were part of the Tompkins Square Park riots or were actively involved in squatting, rehabbing, making community gardens, etc. While I volunteered there, they had European anarchists visiting to check out the site, which is also a famous punk squat, and they were very involved in Occupy, in the post Sandy cleanup effort, etc.
I think what I saw there is what planning, especially small scale neighborhood planning, has to offer the arts and vice versa. People in the community produced art for each other, to advocate for the neighborhood, to draw attention to huge problems, like the drug epidemic. There was a great interplay between modifications to the built environment, and the direct needs of neighbors in that space. And it felt like a joyful space too. So it was a big lesson in what art can mean to a community, if it is the tip of the spear in terms of how an organized group of people articulate their values to themselves and each other, and empower themselves. Planning at its best involves asking hard questions about what the future will be. This is where activism lives, too. Art comes in and ties them together, creates fun where it might be very hard to have fun otherwise, to allow people to be authentically present.
2. When I first knew you, you were a student at Boston College in the North East. It seems you've moved around a bit. What is it that you drew you to the Texas area , especially around Dallas?
When I finished from my first graduate program in 2010, with an art degree, it was right in the middle of the recession, and I really needed a job. And Texas throughout the recession still had a booming economy, not always for the right reasons, but the money was there. A boyfriend at the time wanted to move to Texas for school. I thought, sure, let’s go. In Austin I was able to get work with a little non-profit as a science book illustrator, and then teach art, and finally to go back to school to get a planning degree and work for the city.
So Texas is booming. Texas cities have room to grow and housing is still cheap, and air conditioning in the Sunbelt means we can stand to be here in the summer. It really is kind of like, yee-haw. But there is a dark underbelly to all this growth, which is that it is happening too fast, and without a tight plan. The state government has some awful people, and Texas sense some terrible representatives to Congress. That being said, I planned to leave and at one point moved away, but came back. I’ve met wonderful people in the Austin community and in Fort Worth where I live now. Texans are upbeat. They are optimistic. They want to make a deal with you. They are hyper local. They value their independence. And I think Beto showed the country that there are many lovely Texas people who are enthusiastically Texan but also want better wages, to end racism and sexism, to deal with police violence, and to address inequality and climate change. So that disrupts some stereotypes and hopefully energized the rest of the country a little. Austin and the city I now live in, Fort Worth, both went for Beto.
As to why I'm in the DFW area now: I came to work for the city, to join this art collective, and to try out a different place. DFW is the size of Connecticut. It has tons of museums and shows and may different types of people. It has a respectable but not perfect train system. And it has tons of problems, with environmental injustice, with an income gap, with protections for workers. But I feel equipped to have conversations here about how we can make it better. After a couple of years in Texas, you learn how to talk to people.
3. You are part of an artist's co-op and it has a great mission statement and, from what I've seen some wonderful artists-- but not just confined to visual arts. Tell me something about it.
I like this question a lot. I think it has a couple parts to it. So the group is the Kiriyo Cooperative. Kiriyo is a Yoruba word for wanderer. The historian Paul Gilroy in his book the Black Atlantic describes African Diaspora people as the cosmopolitan wanderers of the Atlantic world, sharing culture and religion around its ring. Most of the people in the house identify as black or African or African Diasporan (to be clear though, that is not me). The house is in a historically black neighborhood, down the street from a neighborhood-maintained Juneteenth museum. And the goal is to make sure that no matter who the clients are or who artists are that are passing through, that they understand this space as committed to preserving and amplifying black culture and being in and a part of that community. The house is about this particular narrative and history and trying to understand America’s contemporary relationship to its black history in the south. People who want to know more about it should hop on the website. I think all the members have personal pages with more info about their art. Raziq is a filmmaker, Myron is a hiphop artist and audio engineer, Jourdan is a hiphop artist and audio engineer and graphic designer, and Kasha is a science illustrator and tattoo artist. Right now we are still figuring out how to work collaboratively across media. The goal is to hopefully support everyone in their personal endeavors, while doing a few shared projects together.
4. How do you think the arts can help redefine living spaces, not just for the artists but for the neighborhoods and communities surrounding them? I think of a rock thrown into a lake-- or a jar placed in Tennessee as Stevens wrote. How do you see hoped for change via this community, and how do you feel about those unpredictable effects. Do they excite you, frighten you, or both.
To me I think it is about possibilities for agency. My dad grew up in foster care and then in a housing project and his family had little to no control over or choice in their living environment. So he always loved art because he could do a little something himself and it had a huge effect on his perception of his environment, and what is possible, and really communicated that to me. Just to be able to transform a space with your creative time and energy, and especially to share that energy with others--to make something beautiful when the world tells you that you are ugly, and only deserve to live ugly places, to me that represents a huge act of rebellion. It also opens up the possibility of shaping what beauty is. The psychologist Paul Bloom says that attraction to objects is partly a function of the story behind them--this is something one of my favorite art historians, Neil MacGregor of the British Museum, also says too. The story becomes the object, and vice versa. Objects become totems for desirable experiences we want to call into being in the world. And what that says to me is that there are no universal standards of beauty, just agree-upon, cultivated standards that represent shared values between collections of individuals. They are changeable. When you set your own standards with the work that you do, you not only not only refuse to participate in aesthetic systems that are repressive (colorism, for example) but you build an understanding of beauty that is on your terms. And then people can’t devalue you or touch you, because they have nothing to offer you. Art offers dignity, and agency, in that way.
So, to take it back to spaces--whether those spaces are digital, abstract spaces, or a physical spaces--the story of coming together and shaping a place has the potential to radiate out to the block, the neighborhood. So the hope is that there is also a component that is very concrete, in terms of outreach. Right now the collective is teaching art and podcast classes at an elementary school. And the next project is learning how to compost properly and get the garden up to speed, the way a lot of groups are doing in Baltimore and Detroit. The previous owner used to have a community garden here and the people from the neighborhood miss it, and have asked when we are going to get it back in gear. A long term dream is to run a tiny library out of the front office space. Ultimately we want the artists to be a resource for small businesses and area non profits that need design support, and the house to be a community center. So yes, I see the possibility for an effect, a positive one if it goes well, but also a potentially a negative one and loss of trust if we fail at this. It is hard. How do you support everyone’s independent ambitions to ‘make it’ but still present a unified vision of what the Co-Operative has to offer, and also be sensitive to the neighborhood? How do you find money to rehab a space when everyone is bootstrapping it as it is? So we will keep going forward until the wheels fall off, as they say. But I’m optimistic.
5. Finally, ok: how have you enjoyed doing these bird pics? I loved writing the poems and I've been really excited by the art work you've made. How do you approach a poem visually?
Yeah, I love doing the bird drawings. It’s a great bridge for the two different types of work I’m doing, in the sense that I’m getting to play around with colors and textures and different types of formal elements to articulate some specific ideas about how environments and space are changing in real time. I think a lot about urbanization, habitat fragmentation and the mass extinction event we are in the middle of, and the poems really illustrate this. The birds are really liminal creatures, existing in these transitional spaces. Some birds like the english house sparrow, which you describe essentially as a plucky trash bird, will survive and blend in and keep going, much the way cockroaches and raccoons do, in an urban environment. Some like the egret seem very fragile, or like the northern flicker, just grossy out of place, and the way you depict them is a bit tragic, and speaks to what might be lost soon. Seeing the birds, memories of the birds in time, this personalizes the changes in ecology that we are all becoming accustomed to but can’t always put our fingers on.
So my process for doing these images so far is that I start by googling pictures of the bird like crazy. I’m looking for a few key things that define the bird’s silhouette, whether it is the beak shape or the crest or markings. I’ve noticed John James Audubon's drawings have been really helpful in this regard, because he always emphasizes these elements and was a great observer of bird attitude. Next I look for images and textures that define the feel of the environment. Is it concrete, wood, metal, or something else? Finally, I think about composition and framing, and try to use those elements to tell the story that I’m seeing. In the case of the sparrow page, I really felt like the image of the target came through in strong way, and that these birds were trying to hide out of the line of fire. So the image is organized around the target (which reminded me a bit of medieval images of the circular zodiac and the labors, as well as Jaspers Johns’ targets. That probably sounds grandiose, and I don’t expect that anyone looking at that would see anything other than birds and colors). I then kind of try to weave the shape of the bird into the space by using textures layered under and over the silhouette. Really I’m just aiming for images that look like if Charles Demuth was really into macrame and collage and painted birds instead of buildings. I’m still feeling it out.
Jaimie DeAngelo is a graphic and layout artist, cartographer, and New England native. She has degrees in art history and city planning from Boston University and UT Austin. She loves public transit, a good landscape, and savory gelatin dishes. Follow her at: instagram.com/romaa_ke. Contact her: roma@kiriyo.com